Culture, Practice Intensity, and Parents - a conversation with Mark Jaspers

In this episode, I’m joined by Mark Jaspers. Mark is a longtime Athletic Director who has worked in multiple schools, spanning different countries and cultures. Our conversation moves across several topics from practice intensity, to building culture, as well as parent roles and how they relate to our programs. There’s plenty to dig into, and hopefully something useful for your own practice. 

Be sure to check out Mark’s book recommendations.*

The Talent Myth - Wayne Goldsmith

Range - David Epstein

Peak Performance - Steve Magness

*links accessed on 19/01/26   Select Athletics is not affiliated with nor receives any compensation from these links.

Show Transcript

DD - All right, so I would like to welcome our guest, Mark Jaspers.

Welcome Mark.

Can you tell us a little bit about your background? What have you done coaching-wise, and then what position do you currently hold outside of coaching?

MJ - Yeah, so I'm the Athletic Director at Graded, the American School of São Paulo. It's my fourth year here, and I've been around the world. I've been in this business for over 20 years. This is my fourth continent, my fifth country. So, I'm from the Netherlands originally, and my first overseas post was in Uganda, then I moved to Germany, Thailand at ISB for eight years, and now my fourth year here at Graded as an Athletic and Activities Director.

I've coached multiple sports. My passion is soccer, unsurprisingly, probably being from Netherlands, it's the biggest sport in my country, and I've coached at all levels. Actually, I've coached from varsity, JV, middle school, and I don't have an ego for coaching. I coached, my last soccer coaching was grade one soccer here at Graded. Partially also because my younger son was playing on the team. I just love working with kids. It doesn't matter the level.

I picked up other sports. At the time in Germany I coached basketball for the first time in my life, the middle school girls basketball, and with a PE background, even though I've never played the sport, with a PE background I think you can... I had a great mentor also. I worked with a girl who played for the New Zealand under 21 national team, she taught me everything I know about basketball.

DD - What an opportunity there. Usually you get thrown into the fire in middle school, and you're on your own, so.

MJ - I learned so much, and it actually helped me also improve in my teaching. When I was teaching basketball in classes, it actually did help also with that part. And then when I moved to Bangkok, I picked up cross country coaching. I love running also, and cycling, and track and field, which I'm still coaching here.

That's kind of my coaching career in a nutshell. I've learned that this is probably the biggest thing for me. Sport is actually not the goal. It's often the tool to get the kids where they want to be. I think it changed me over time.

DD - Yeah, so that's actually really interesting that you say that. That kind of leads into my first question. You've been on all sides of the ball, so you've played a lot of sport. You've coached, and now obviously as an AD, like what would you say that your philosophy is for the programs that you run as an AD?

MJ - Every school I've worked at, we've had increased numbers, participation numbers, and I spoke to our PTA parents earlier this year. Like, in the United States, 70% of kids quit organized sports by the age of 13. That's the stat that's been repeated in research.

DD - Is that from the Aspen Institute survey, or is that from a different...

MJ - I don't remember where I got it from. I need to look it up. In my presentation, I have it

probably linked to somewhere.

DD - Okay.

MJ - But we have increasing numbers of participation. So what it for me that means, what kids are looking for is a place where they belong, where they feel valued. And I didn't realize how much it means to be on a school team until my oldest son brought his first jersey home because he was on a third grade soccer team at ISB in Bangkok. And the pride that he had wearing that jersey, like I didn't know how much it meant to kids to put on that school jersey. And creating this kind of home for where they feel it's like a family feeling. If they feel like being part of a family, a place where they want to be, I think that's the strength of a program.

So the more kids you can engage, especially at the level of international schools, the better your program will be. You'll still have to try to find the balance between, okay, how can we be inclusive, which is great, especially because there's not have many other places to go. If you're living in Brazil and you're an expat, it's hard to join local clubs. There's a language barrier. There's so many other cultural things that make it difficult in terms of membership. So we need to offer an opportunity for students and children. But also, like we also want to be competitive. So how can you do both? That is the challenge, like be inclusive, but also be competitive. So have multiple tracks, I think, is the secret to a successful program for me.

DD - Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Like, what does that look like for you now? Or, how have you implemented that?

MJ - So I kind of like the philosophy of the long-term athletic development program is where you start. Like it needs to start with fun. Like if the kids want, at the younger age, they need to have fun and why they're playing and...starting with competitive sports too early is really dangerous in a way, because it's not necessary.

When you start selecting kids at, say, second or third grade. It's not only, those kids are early developers. It doesn't mean they're talented or more talented, they just, they might be stronger physically, they might be faster, it's got nothing to do with talent. Kids don't understand that there's different pathways. Parents don't always understand that growth is not linear, especially in sports.

Like, it's about early exposure. Like, I had a personal coach maybe at a younger age, of course I'm ahead. Like I remember my own kids, my oldest, he knew how to ride a bike by the age of three, which is way, because he was interested in that. And he spent a lot of time doing that. So it's just because he had an interest he was ahead, but every kid learns how to ride a bike, right? And this is the same with language learning. There's all these things are, there's different tracks to success. But it does damage the kids that are not being picked. Because how do you tell a seven-year-old you're not good enough to play on this team, you can't play with your friends? I don't think that's necessary.

Try to have fun, fun is the fundamental of sports. Like you play because you love playing. And sometimes when kids get older and it becomes more competitive, they forget about why they actually started playing the sport and play for the love of the game.

One of my favorite times of the season is actually when the season is over. Like, you had your final tournament. And we have a lot of coaches, and you know some of our coach, you know Bob, our basketball coach. He will always run practice. He never cancels practice. And the fun that the kids have when there's no pressure is actually super interesting to watch. And, those are my favorite practices, because they come because they love to be there, and it's not like I want to be competitive. I want to be this. No, I'm just there for the fun of it.

DD - Yeah, it's crazy. Like there's no big exams coming up. The last, you know, the season is kind of officially over, but you're still running some scrimmages or skill, like the, the lightness in the kids is just, it's like night and day sometimes.

MJ - No, it's like open gym or preseason is the other time. Like before school starts all the kids are back and coaches "can we run an open practice preseason?" Sure. I love watching those because the joy is is what brought you there in the first place. Like it brings you back to your childhood memories. Like why you play sports. And I think you should never forget that. And you have to enlighten sometimes because kids forget when it comes to like pressure.

DD - Yeah. Well, how are you measuring? You talked about measuring kind of using your program attendance and program goals. Like so, are you using that as just a straight participation number to kind of gauge? Obviously, if our numbers continue to be up, then we're doing something right. Or is there a bigger metric to that? Or...

MJ - Numbers is one thing right, but it doesn't say everything about success of a program. Like for me, culture is important. I think numbers say something about culture because kids are busy and if they don't feel it's a good place to be, they will stop coming. I mean, so it is a big indicator for me.

But building culture is like what I say to our coaches, what I say to our athletes, like the biggest indicator of success is a positive team culture. Like how do you interact with each other on a day-to-day basis in terms of there's this study that they talk about. Most successful teams have more physical touches within team mates during games than teams that are unsuccessful. And maybe they give more high fives because they score more points. So maybe it's related to the times the they celebrate success. But there's a study talking about that and how they interact with each other.

And, when I was in Germany, we had some retired German national team soccer players were parents at the school and one of them played futsal with us. Jans Lehmann, was a German national goalkeeper. And he said he played on this Arsenal team that was called the Invincibles. They won the league undefeated, the Premier League. And he said for him that successful teams, he said two out of three comments within the team's conversations are positive versus negative. You need to have a positive balance of how you interact with each other. Everyone knows if you make a mistake You don't have to tell people they made a mistake, that's a waste of time. Like how do you support what do you do next? Like that's what counts more. So for me, like having that positive team culture, I think it's really, really important. Again, a place where kids want to be.

And then the next thing, like when I watch practices, you need two minutes to know if it's a good practice or not. What I'm looking for is intensity in practice. Like the worst thing I watch, and sometimes you've seen this 15 kids lined up to take one shot each in turns, it's like my nightmare practice. Like, I need to step on a field and say something. Like set up two or three stations and have kids more repetitions. So you can you can influence the intensity of practice. But also what I've learned over time is a team that practice at game speed, for instance, it's a very small thing. Every kid can make a layup in a layup line if they go at 50 percent speed. You go to a game, you're never going to get that layup, right? So how do you practice at a game speed? So practice under pressure, I think, is really important for kids to do more. And successful teams, I can tell our most successful teams to have that intensity in practice. So that's one thing I'm looking for.

DD - What are some things that either like you've seen coaches do or that you've had to actually coach them to do, to help build that culture or to change some of that intensity? What are... what are maybe some examples that other folks could take from that?

MJ - So one thing I've seen is it's our boys basketball team this year won the ASB Nationals 16 team tournament. And what, and we have a new coach who came in, Jordan Bauman, he came from Johannesburg. And one thing I've seen, and it's intentional, the energy of his bench during a game matches the energy on the court. They're cheering, they're calling defense, they're clapping, they're singing, they are making noise while the game is going on. But what it does is when it comes off the bench and comes on into the game, he already has that game energy because you've seen kids come on flat off the bench nervous. But they are in that game and it doesn't matter who it is, whether it's their first point guard or their 12th player off the bench, they are doing the same thing. If a starter gets subbed off, they'd still continue that energy on the bench. And for me, that was super interesting to see. No other team did that. And I don't know if that's why we won the tournament, but it really stood out for me and other teams are starting to follow this, which is fascinating to see.

DD - That's so great. I think it's one of the harder things with some of the younger kids coming up, sometimes that understanding that like just because I'm on the bench doesn't mean that I'm not in the game, that I don't have a role to play in this going on. That it's my job to keep the energy up, that it's my like it's so that's that's great to hear like it's sometimes a very hard thing that I think impart in some folks.

MJ - Now, and I think understanding your role also is important. Like, okay, what is my role on the team? Not everybody is a starter, and I don't, I hate the difference if coaches talk about starters versus bench. I don't mind, but you're all on the team. You create a hierarchy in your team, which I think is unhealthy. Kids feel more important than others, but they're not. I think in soccer, they changed the rules during the pandemic that they have. Back in the day when I played, we only had two subs, even at the youth level. So when the coach put this hand up every kid keeps their head down, like no eye contact. I don't want to get stubbed off because you can't get back in. They increased to three, and now after the pandemic increased it to five, and what that changed, and I think it's different for already like basketball, ice hockey, coaches started talking about starters versus finishers. Like in baseball, you have closers, right? And like sell that concept to the kids like your job is to maybe finish this game, bring it home, and maybe it's two minutes, maybe it's five minutes, or maybe you're resting our top score. So when he gets back on, he's fresh, and he doesn't miss that layup. But also, take pride in that role that you have in the team. I think it's really, really important.

DD - Yeah, that's great. That's such, such good language of framing that for the kids.

You've obviously been around quite a while and seen kids come through. What is one of the maybe the biggest need or one of the reoccurring themes that you see in kids today versus maybe five, 10 years ago? I know there's a lot of talk about mental toughness and

resilience, and that's just one example. But, is there something that you think you're seeing

that's maybe different in kids today, maybe then even when you were playing?

MJ - Yeah, I know. I think what I'm seeing now, it's much harder to be a teenager now than it was back in our time.

I would never miss practice because this was the only thing that got me out of the house that I lived for. Like I couldn't imagine missing a practice, but I think today's athletes, student athletes, they have so many pressures that are outside whether it's social, social media, homework, college preparations, college applications, there's so many different balls they're juggling compared to when we were there. We can say that it's hard for us like these kids are not committed anymore, but we also need to change as coaches to kind of acknowledge that this is a reality and that's not going to change.

I put a slide up at our banquet last year, like the biggest indicator of success in college. It's not GPA, it's not your grades or whatever you have. The biggest indicator of success is not your SAT scores. It's your attendance, it's totally related to attendance. And I use that as a metaphor also for sports, it's the same for sports. If you show up for practice more regularly, you practice as a team, you're more likely to be successful.

Then I come to juggling responsibilities. I had this slide, "commitment means sacrifice." If you don't know what you're sacrificing, if you say you're committed, but you don't know what you're sacrificing, you're probably not as committed as you think you are. How do you balance that time? I give this example, we have kids and I cannot come to practice because I have a test tomorrow. Typical, teenage excuse. Then you ask at a deeper level, you went to a party on Saturday night, you came home at 5 a.m. because you don't want to miss out. It's the fear of missing out, which is real. You can't study on Sunday because you're sleeping in and you're recovering. Then you miss Monday practice because you have a test on Tuesday. Now if I say what sacrifice are you making to be part of this team? Maybe I go home at two. I sleep till midnight until midday. I study half day Sunday. I go to practice on Monday. I'm actually more relaxed when I go into my test because I feel I'm prepared. You'll still do well on your test on Tuesday, but not every kid makes that choice.

It comes down to making choices or making excuses. Those are the two pathways that you take. It's literally a slide, choices versus excuses that I have, and trying to guide kids, like, think in solutions. But also means you need to plan ahead because they don't think that far ahead because I think they're all in survival mode sometimes.

DD - Mmmhhmm, yeah.

MJ - When I ask them the question, "How many of you participate in sports because it relieves stress?" All their hands go up. Then when I ask the second question, "How many of you also feel pressure and try to balance everything and it creates stress?" Almost the same number of hands go up. They want to be part of it, but they also feel the pressures on the other side, and how can you make that work? You need to make sacrifices in other areas. If you ask how much time you actually spend on social media per day? Three, four hours. Take off one hour. That's a practice stop. Right there. It's not hard, but you have to make choices. You have to make hard choices.

And guiding kids and that's why I think it's important that if you want to be there and you have that feeling of like I belong here and I want to be a practice, you'll make that time. You'll make that sacrifice. So as a coach, I think you have a huge responsibility creating this safe environment where kids want to be not because they are told to be there because they actually want to be there.

DD - So is that a presentation that you're giving every semester now to the kids?

MJ - Yeah, so I do an athlete's presentation at the start of the season. And it's funny, I only really get to speak to the parents at the banquet when the season is over. That's my time to pitch some of these ideas, and I have book recommendations for parents always. It's one of my, actually, no I do speak with parents also at the high school, back to school night at the start of the year. So I always use some kind of books. Actually, the latest book I referenced for them was The Talent Myth from Wayne Goldsmith. I know if you've heard of Wayne Goldsmith.

Super interesting coach, educator. And this is my theme for the year, basically. It talks about championship choices. So he said kids are not talented because... you think they're talented, but you don't know what's behind it. So in his book, he talks about, if you ask the average fan, why is this athlete good? Let's talk about Ronaldo, for instance, the soccer player. You talk about their skills. You talk about the goals they scored, their strength, their speed. But, if you ask a teammates or their coaches, why is Ronaldo such a good player? They have very different answers.

DD - Oh, it's a total, yeah.

MJ - His relentless work ethic, he's obsessed with training, with nutrition, all the things he does behind the scenes that you never see. Right, and if you're looking at a, I think I referenced earlier, look at an eight-year-old that is just bigger and stronger, he looks dominant. It doesn't mean he's more talented.

I think what Wayne talks about in his book is he lists 10 championship choices that actually will help you not just in sports, but in life. And it's things like resilience, confidence, passion, coachability, competitive mindset, growth, orientation, all those kind of things are more important. And that's what you should work on and the rest will come by itself.

DD - Right, yeah. It's interesting hearing you say that. Many coaches and some of the ADs I'm talking to and then even some parents now, it feels like we are at a point where we desperately need some parent education pieces to help folks understand.

We all come from where we are, from a framework of where we're generally fans of something and you're fans of pro sports. And so that's the lens that they often see things through, right? And it's just a, it's scaled down to youth sports. But the reality is those are very, very different things.

We're dealing with some things now, like we get some questions, all from a good place, but sitting in the stands, you know, they're like, oh, why are we, you know, why are we losing? Or that's not fair. This game means nothing. This is just training. It feels like we need to do something to help shift that mindset a little bit and understand like, this is why we don't make selections at eight. This is why now at this age, why we do make some selections or this is why we don't play positions at eight years old, right? Because we're trying to develop general things. Most of them don't know. And most of it's because their lens that they're able to approach things through is that professional sports level. And then when you explain things, it's an aha moment. Oh, yeah, I totally understand now. It makes sense why we do those things. Like...

MJ - I totally agree. Like I actually want to work more with parents because parents love watching their kids play. And generally they are very supportive, they're very passionate. But sometimes you forget what it means to be a sport parent and then what it means to be a sport parent at an educational based athletics program might also look different. But I think what I see is, I have parents sometimes come in and they ask about coaches why to do this and they don't always agree. And that's right, everyone can have their opinion. If I'm saying the Brazilian national team is playing and they're watching the TV, why are they not bringing Neymar on or why they are playing this formation. Everyone will have an opinion.

DD - Yeah, right? We all do it.

MJ - And it's part of being a fan. And it doesn't mean they're right or they're wrong. It's everybody has a right to their opinion you can disagree also. But having I think what you need to have is a conversation with parents and try to, when they understand, as you're talking about the aha moment, 95% of the parent conversations when you have, I'm always open. My door is open. I'm happy to speak to anyone and try to explain why. And they don't always, when they hear that, they say, "Yeah, you're right. That makes total sense." I had a parent walk out of my office this year. He said, "Thank you so much. I've learned a lot from you." Was his comment. When he came in with a complaint.

DD - Oh, it's so great. Yeah.

MJ - Doesn't mean they always agree with what you're doing. But I think we need to sometimes do a better job understanding and explaining the philosophy of why we're doing things.

DD - Yeah.

MJ - We take for granted because you work with kids every day and they understand. But their parents don't get that education. And if your own lived experience was 20, 30 years ago, like when I was playing, things were different. I think we need to more time have meetings with parents, have presentations for parents. I actually love those conversations because I'm very passionate about what we do. I believe in the way we structure our program. And I think parents just want to know from coaches, "Do they care about my kid?" Like, I don't care how much you know, until I know how much you care. It's a great phrase, right?

DD - Right. I had a parent, I coached his daughter over several years, and he said she had come home one night, was talking about she wish she had more playing time or this or that. And you know, the typical athlete, like, right, we always wish we had more playing time. We all, but he, I guess he made a comment to her that was essentially, you know, if I didn't think those guys were trying to do everything they could to do right by you, and then to win, we'd have a conversation. They're building culture. This is a great environment for you. And subsequently, then we're actually really competitive and these wins are coming. I also understand like what the larger goal is here. It was just such a great conversation with him. And I feel like that is again the majority of the parents.

I just think you hit it on the head there. We know what we're doing. The kids are buying into the system of what we're doing. And sometimes I forget like, they're the ones in the dark. They don't know what we're trying to do. And when we can share that information, then oh they're, you know, even if they don't agree with it or think we should do something a little bit different, they're usually on board because they know we're taking care of the kids. Like you said, kids are first.

MJ - I think that's what that's what they know. And it's funny. I just listened to, do you know Robin van Persie. He was a striker for Arsenal and for the international team. He's now a coach. He coaches in the top league in the Netherlands, and he talked about his son's experience. He was on the bench at the at the game. His son just made his debut, actually, for Feyenoord at the age of 19. And he said he was in an under 14 game. He was on the bench. He didn't play in a big game. And he on the ride home, he complained about not playing and this and that. And then his answer to his son was "Dude, you sound like a loser." And he's like, and he said "loser" only because the only arguments he gave were "it's the coaches, the other team." And it's like nothing like about himself. He said,

DD - oh yeah.

MJ - And he said, I love you regardless of what you're doing. I love you. Wether you win or you lose. Wether you play or wether you become a soccer player or not. But the difference

between a loser and a winner, a winner takes control. So what can I do to change? What can I do to get more playing time? Like if you're a loser, you blame others. If you're, if you play like, if you talk like a winner, you look inside yourself, what you can do different. And he said, and he went to the next training session. And his kid was like, put so much intensity in his training session. So he got the message. He said, I don't care if you play or not. I love you regardless. And but this winner, a mentality versus loser mentality, I think was super interesting to hear from and he was professional player. He's a coach now, so he gets it, right? And telling your kid like, and it's hard.

Our kids sometimes are afraid to ask for feedback. Like go up to your coach and ask, "coach, what do I need, what do I need to do to play more?" Or, "what can I do better?" Like this is such, I don't know, they're afraid that you're saying that the coach is not good enough or that you're asking for playing time. No, don't ask for playing time. Ask for what you can do to get more playing time. I think, and then that's why you need to have that relationship with the kid as a coach. You need to be open to feedback. Kids need feedback. And they don't always ask for it. They don't always know how to ask for it. So they need help also and create that culture within your team that it's okay to ask.

The goals for everyone to improve. And you will improve if you practice, but if you have targeted questions, you'll improve quicker. Why did this is, this is reality. So just lowering that barrier for them to ask these questions and then ask for feedback, I think is really, really important.

It starts with the coaches. If you want to change the culture, you start with coaches and make sure that they speak the same language so it doesn't matter. We have a lot of kids who play multiple sports. If they hear the same language in every sport, they start making the connection. It's much bigger than the sport. Again, I go back to sports as the tool for 99% of our kids is not the goal. Most of our kids will not end up in college, but we want them to enjoy being part of a team and learn those life skills through sports, basically. I think that is the main goal for most of our programs.

But then still be the best you can be where you are, right? So it doesn't take away from trying to win games. That's still what your goal is. Every kid shows up, and I had this conversation sometimes with parents in elementary school, why we don't have trophies or why do we do festivals and not have played to win? I'm like, have you ever been to recess soccer? Watch kids at recess. It's like they won the World Cup if they score a goal.

DD - laughter

MJ - They don't need the extrinsic motivation to play to win. They have that already. They don't need that reward. They feel like they've won the World Cup if they walk off the recess field into their classroom where they scored the last goal. So I think we're overvaluing it and maybe it's more the parents who want it than actually the kids who need it.

We had a Real Madrid soccer camp over the last break in October. It was great. Actually coaches from Madrid came in and the kids had a great time. They played a tournament on the last day and basically the tournament was finished. They got everyone together. There was no mention of who got first, second, third or fourth. Every kid got a certificate, picture with the coaches and they walked away and everybody had a fantastic time and it tells you that if Real Madrid, if that that's their philosophy. I loved it. It was really like a good match with what we're trying to do at school.

I think when I go back to kids' psychology, let's say, what they're starting with. A lot of our kids are afraid to fail. They don't take chances. Sports is a very safe place to build in this failure because it's instant. You miss a shot, everybody sees it. But, you get another chance. You always get another chance.

DD - Yeah and it's ultimately low stakes.

MJ - Absolutely.

DD - It's not a big work project. It's not, like at the end of the day, nobody's going home hungry because we missed the game-winning shot because somebody made a mistake. This is the environment that they should be able, free and able to make those mistakes in.

MJ - Yeah. Don't be afraid to fail. Embrace failure because it will make you grow. Every coach says you learn more from your losses than from your wins, right, as a team sometimes. But our kids don't like to lose, they're not good at losing and they don't know how to handle it. So the emotional piece comes back to psychology and how do you handle that and how do we deal with those kind of things?

As a coach, you have to be really intentional, I think, in setting that up and it's not all the time. I come back, it's all related. I come back to training intensity. If your practice is harder than the game because you train at such high intensity, you will relax when you're playing the game because you know you've done this and don't be afraid to fail because the biggest people that are athletic icons have done this.

If you've seen Roger Federer's speech, he had a graduation speech somewhere and he talked about the percentage of points he won and the percentage of points he lost in his tennis career. And it's very close to, it's like 51-49 or something like that and he's one of the most successful players of all time. So it's like winning at the right time, like the timing is everything, right?

So, but those things, I think, from a year important, our kids need to see that because they only see the success and especially with the current, like how many kids watch full games? They watch highlights of games and they just see the glory and they don't see how much they're running back in defense. And this is something, this is a cultural thing that there's all these clips on YouTube and you only see the highlights, you don't see what happens beforehand.

DD - Yeah, I have been talking about that and trying to get kids to understand, but how many of them have actually watched a full game? Because most of them have no idea that, you know, like that, to make that 60-second highlight reel took 90 minutes of game time to make that happen. There's so much more to that, but that is often how these kids are learning the game.

MJ - It comes back to that, like, what you see as talent is just a surface right, not what is behind it. So...

DD - Yeah, good stuff. Good stuff. Well, looks like we did it. Mark, thanks. This has been so great. Really glad we could have you on.

MJ - Yeah, no it's been a pleasure talking to you. Great catching up.

DD - Thanks for your time.